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Trials and tribulations of going square (while having bad struts)

(@nottamiata)
Prominent Member

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🐸, 2003, Electric Green Mica

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Topic starter Posted : July 19, 2019 12:34 pm
dev
 dev
(@dev)
Just a member.

I think you are over thinking this. You have bad struts. Replace those first and see where you are at. I will make a big difference that should fix most of what you are feeling. 

If you want to mess around with camber I would not go more than -1.5 -2 otherwise your braking performance will suffer. Camber can cause some wear but it is toe that is mostly responsible for tire wear.   

Whatever you do, do not buy cheap coilovers.  

 

 

 

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Posted : July 19, 2019 1:56 pm
CSPIDY reacted
(@nottamiata)
Prominent Member

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🐸, 2003, Electric Green Mica

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Topic starter Posted : July 19, 2019 3:45 pm
dev
 dev
(@dev)
Just a member.

The original  KYB struts that were supplied with the car new are better in my opinion than the aftermarket replacements KYB that are commercially sold but not by much. 

The difference is the aftermarket KYB struts are more gas filled as a feature and are able to rebound back quickly as you push them in.  Does this feature make them better , not by my experience but there is something that the aftermarket has over what came with the car and that is longevity.  

The Spyder was well made and came with good components that match the cars performance its just that the struts didn't last. Its the same way with high quality coilovers, they don't last either because the seals are made to a high tolerance that they require frequent rebuilding.   

You will be fine with the KYB replacements. I have driven many others that have replaced with these and they do very well.   

Ringing could be a phenomenon of no damping oil in the strut or a spring. Don't know for sure unless I can drive the car.  

The alignment will not make that much of a profound difference with replacing the struts unless you lower you car so I would do that last as a finishing touch. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted : July 19, 2019 3:58 pm
(@not-2-old-for-2-seater)
Estimable Member

For what it is worth, when I bought Itsy-Bitsy the struts were shot.  Within 3K of driving I replaced (probably OEM) old struts with new KYBs.  The biggest issue I found was finding correct strut mounts.  Neither my new strut retailer, nor any easy-for-me-to-find Internet searches found a KYB mount that matched. Several manufacturer's listed mounts for Spyders, and following sometimes long tech support correspondence, indicated that their mounts would work on the KYB struts.

I bought one aftermarket mount that did not work.  Then I bought some Monroe mounts. While the rear mounts seemed to be OK, there was a hell of a racket coming from the front struts/mounts.  Sent the new front Monroe mounts back, got new ones.  New mounts made just as much racket as old mounts.  Bummer!

After much trial and error, I figured out that the Monroe mounts needed me to inset a "Paul Made" 5 mm metal spacer between the upper shaft and the mount bracket in order for them to work properly. Getting to install/remove/re-tighten the mounts also gave me an opportunity to put each wheel on a ramp before tightening everything down again.

If I had it to do all over again, I would definitely go with an "Absolutely Proven To Work Right Out Of The Box" mount... even if it more expensive.

ASIDE:  Neither I, while replacing the struts and mounts, nor the technician who did a fairly expensive Custom Alignment on Itsy-Bitsy, noticed that two of my rear control arms were bent. That might be something you want to put a known straightedge on to "Rule Out" control arms as contributing to your car's somewhat erratic handling.

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Posted : July 19, 2019 4:37 pm
Galo
 Galo
(@galo)
Honorable Member

So, do the struts and their mounts work properly? I didn't see it stated, but did you replace the bent control arms?

You might also get "lowering" springs, specifically, Tein "greens/S.TECH". They don't over lower the car, but are somewhat stiffer, which helps with body roll. These were on the '04 I bought with KYB's. I put them on my Koni inserts and they worked well...decent ride and better control.

Alignment. Forget the factory FRONT alignment, period. Rear camber is fine, but more front  - camber is recommended. You will need "crash bolts" or Moog camber cam-bolts(or something similar). TRY to get at least = - camber, f&r, with ZERO toe, f&r. These alignment numbers have worked very well on all 3 of my Spyders. NONE of my Spyders has tramlined, nor had noticeable bump steer(if any)...not_a_one...and I have had a "square" 205-25 setup on my '04, and 4 x 195/50-15's on my '03 and '01(my current car).

Also, make sure the psi is set to the proper numbers. Use the Falken link Patrick posted, in the "Suspension & handling" sub forum. If you need help...

Your problem, imo, has nothing to do with the square set-up. Just maybe you have a lot of crap roads, and nothing vehicle related can help that.

 

Good luck.

 

"Think as we think", say many Spyder owners, "or you are abominably wicked, you are a toad". After I'd thought about, I said "I will then, be a toad."
Thank you, Stephen Crane

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Posted : July 19, 2019 6:27 pm
(@nottamiata)
Prominent Member

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🐸, 2003, Electric Green Mica

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Topic starter Posted : July 20, 2019 8:40 am
(@nottamiata)
Prominent Member

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🐸, 2003, Electric Green Mica

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Topic starter Posted : July 20, 2019 8:48 am
dev
 dev
(@dev)
Just a member.

First off your alignment is just fine and whom ever aligned the car did a very good job.  

You have to understand some basic concepts in regard to your alignment changes. 

What was wrong with your before alignment  was the toe was off on the rear which what usually falls out of alignment first on these cars.  

It was brought back with a hint of positive toe which is good for high speed stability. Whatever changes you make to toe effects the camber and whatever changes you make to camber effects the toe.  This is why your camber came back to normal in the rear.  

 

Just looking at the caster tells me that this car was probably not in an accident and no bent parts or excessively worn bushnings. The fact that the rear is also even probably indicates that the control arms are just fine.  

This is a wonderful alignment. Also it looks like they got you close to 0 toe in the front which is good.   Don't mess with crash bolts to fix a problem, use them much later on once you establish a normal base line and that starts with dampers first.  It should fix everything.  

 

 

 

 

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Posted : July 20, 2019 11:04 am
(@nottamiata)
Prominent Member

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🐸, 2003, Electric Green Mica

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Topic starter Posted : July 20, 2019 11:13 am
Galo
 Galo
(@galo)
Honorable Member

I was told f&r zero toe in '08, when I was setting my car up for a/x-ing, and has worked great on the street. For me, it is mainly for tire wear purposes, plus no influence on turn in/out. Does toe in/out really do anything for street handling...I have no idea, I just know I've gotten terrific tire tread life, AND great handling with my 3 Spyders.

Hopefully you'll arrive at what you like and is safe for you.

 

"Think as we think", say many Spyder owners, "or you are abominably wicked, you are a toad". After I'd thought about, I said "I will then, be a toad."
Thank you, Stephen Crane

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Posted : July 20, 2019 2:48 pm
(@nottamiata)
Prominent Member

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🐸, 2003, Electric Green Mica

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Topic starter Posted : July 20, 2019 2:51 pm
(@nottamiata)
Prominent Member

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🐸, 2003, Electric Green Mica

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Topic starter Posted : July 20, 2019 2:58 pm
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