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I Need a 6 Speed

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DesertWanderer
(@desertwanderer)
Reputable Member

Hello. I love my Spyder but I continually find myself trying to shift into 6th. I know part of that is me being used to an S2000, but it really feels like 6th should be there. I have a stock engine and 5 speed with LSD. I think the gearing in 1-5 is great for the 1zz. Is there a 6 speed option that preserves the 1-5 gearing with a bit of OD in 6th?

 

Thanks!

This topic was modified 2 years ago by DesertWanderer

2005 Spyders (Two in Paradise Blue Metallic, One Super White)
2007 S2000 (New Formula Red)
2007 Civic SI (Nighthawk Black Pearl) TBONED BY 1960 LINCOLN RIP
1970 Olds 442 W30 (Nugget Gold )

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Topic starter Posted : September 21, 2019 6:11 pm
marsrock7
(@marsrock7)
Reputable Member

I think the transmission that has the gearing you are looking for is the 6speed SMT, converted to manual. FWIW, a C60 is geared even shorter but turns about 3300 @70mph.

I feel your struggle... I switched from c60 back to c56 which resulted in me attempting 6th gear more often than not for the first few weeks. Scarily enough the shifter will allow me to land in reverse without any auditory and hardly a tactile complaint. It feels just wrong enough to let me know catastrophy is a clutch engagement away.   

I still have to mentally check myself about top gear in both cars now... Switching from TSX to MR2 or the other way around.

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Posted : September 21, 2019 8:14 pm
DesertWanderer
(@desertwanderer)
Reputable Member

@marsrock7

OK so the C60 is the one I need?

2005 Spyders (Two in Paradise Blue Metallic, One Super White)
2007 S2000 (New Formula Red)
2007 Civic SI (Nighthawk Black Pearl) TBONED BY 1960 LINCOLN RIP
1970 Olds 442 W30 (Nugget Gold )

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Topic starter Posted : September 21, 2019 8:27 pm
haloruler64
(@haloruler64)
Prominent Member

The difference between a stock 5 speed and a C60 in terms of final gearing is tiny. Not really worth it. The shorter overall gearing is why people switch (sometimes). 

2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder, 2020 Mazda 3 Hatchback 6MT

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Posted : September 21, 2019 8:50 pm
marsrock7
(@marsrock7)
Reputable Member
Posted by: @haloruler64

The difference between a stock 5 speed and a C60 in terms of final gearing is tiny. Not really worth it. The shorter overall gearing is why people switch (sometimes). 

Correct. 

If you want to maintain the current gearing and add a 6th gear, I believe that the SMT (c65?) had this.

If you do move to a 6 speed, just be prepared to get used to opposing reverse gear locations. Toyota will be up and left, Honda is of course down and right. I was constantly throwing the Toy in 6th and trying to reverse... 😛

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Posted : September 21, 2019 10:29 pm
haloruler64
(@haloruler64)
Prominent Member

Or just go with a C66M and deal with sliiiiiightly longer gearing but that amazing freeway cruising RPM. Bonus LSD too. 

2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder, 2020 Mazda 3 Hatchback 6MT

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Posted : September 22, 2019 12:36 am
dev
 dev
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Posted by: @haloruler64

The difference between a stock 5 speed and a C60 in terms of final gearing is tiny. Not really worth it. The shorter overall gearing is why people switch (sometimes). 

Although I agree that the C56 is better match for the 1ZZ the C60 gear box 6th gear does make a big difference in lowering over all RPMs on the highway compared to the C56 in actual use to reduce sound and over all cruising rpms.  I cant use 6th unless Im on the highway and locked into my lane otherwise its 5th gear most of the time. 

 

 

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Posted : September 22, 2019 12:05 pm
haloruler64
(@haloruler64)
Prominent Member

C56 5th vs C60 6th is only a 200 RPM difference at 70 MPH dev, I'm not sure what you mean. Shorter 6th + taller final drive makes the gear ratios very similar. The C66M drops it over 600 RPM compared to a C56. In fact, 5th gear on the C66M is taller than 6th on the C60.

2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder, 2020 Mazda 3 Hatchback 6MT

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Posted : September 22, 2019 6:13 pm
dev
 dev
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Posted by: @haloruler64

C56 5th vs C60 6th is only a 200 RPM difference at 70 MPH dev, I'm not sure what you mean. Shorter 6th + taller final drive makes the gear ratios very similar. The C66M drops it over 600 RPM compared to a C56. In fact, 5th gear on the C66M is taller than 6th on the C60.

 Possibly I haven't measured if its only 200rpms but for practical purposes it made a big difference not a small difference from the  C56 in terms of nose and feeling that the car is not winding its self out at 70mph like the 5 speed.  There are two types of transmission for the 2ZZ.  One is for the Lotus Elise that uses a short sixth gear which is the one I don't have.  

Im not the only one that observed how different they are at speed so much so that I hardly use 6th gear unlike the Spyders 5th gear which I use to use all the time when I had the 1ZZ.  Its possible that the small reduction in rpms make all the difference because it certainly doesn't feel like 5th.  Actually the 5th on the C60 felt more like the 5th on the C56 even though its shorter.  

  

 

 

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Posted : September 22, 2019 8:14 pm
haloruler64
(@haloruler64)
Prominent Member

Yeah I did the calculations using the standard Celica C60, which matches up with my results and other peoples (marsrock said 3300 at 70 and the calculations said the same, my old C56 was 3500 and the calcs said the same). I should say small difference on paper not in practice, just want to clarify that. 

I'm thrilled with the C66M. Same thing, on paper it's only 600-700 or so RPM at 70, but DAMN it becomes a luxury car. 

2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder, 2020 Mazda 3 Hatchback 6MT

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Posted : September 22, 2019 8:27 pm
dev
 dev
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Just a member. Moderator
Posted by: @haloruler64

Yeah I did the calculations using the standard Celica C60, which matches up with my results and other peoples (marsrock said 3300 at 70 and the calculations said the same, my old C56 was 3500 and the calcs said the same). I should say small difference on paper not in practice, just want to clarify that. 

I'm thrilled with the C66M. Same thing, on paper it's only 600-700 or so RPM at 70, but DAMN it becomes a luxury car. 

 I never knew it was only 200 rpms as it certainly doesn't feel like it.  Often when I go into 6th I have to drop back to 5th at 55 mph because it doesn't feel right but with the c56 I can be in 5th much earlier and not down shift into 4th  because it felt more flexible and that could have everything to do with the engines characteristics at lower rpms. 

 

 

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Posted : September 22, 2019 8:35 pm
Not 2 Old For 2 Seater
(@not-2-old-for-2-seater)
Estimable Member

Euro 6 speed with LSD (Thanks! MikeV);  85 MPH @ observed 3.5K.  For me, putting a Euro 6 speed with my 1ZZ made the Spyder much more of an Interstate/Longer Distance comfortable driver.

IMHO, the 5 speed is just too buzzy at Interstate speeds.

Paul

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Posted : September 24, 2019 11:35 am
Erdoc48
(@erdoc48)
Estimable Member
Posted by: @not-2-old-for-2-seater

Euro 6 speed with LSD (Thanks! MikeV);  85 MPH @ observed 3.5K.  For me, putting a Euro 6 speed with my 1ZZ made the Spyder much more of an Interstate/Longer Distance comfortable driver.

IMHO, the 5 speed is just too buzzy at Interstate speeds.

Paul

This exactly...a lot of Spyder owners might feel the C66 isn’t a good match for the 1ZZ, but I had mine swapped out years ago (C56 for the C66). I love the Spyder at highway speed. While it might be true that  the C56 is a better match for a 1ZZ, I’ve never had any disappointments with the setup I have. I use mine as a daily driver as well, and am very happy with it.

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Posted : September 24, 2019 12:33 pm
haloruler64
(@haloruler64)
Prominent Member

The only disappointment is in autocross. You can definitely feel the taller gearing. Street or track, no problems.

2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder, 2020 Mazda 3 Hatchback 6MT

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Posted : September 24, 2019 6:47 pm
DesertWanderer
(@desertwanderer)
Reputable Member

Thanks to all for your input! It looks to me like I need a C66 with LSD. This leaves me with two tough questions, First, do we have a reputable source for the C66 with LSD? Second, this will be going into my 2005 Spyder with 70,000 miles. I will of course replace all wear items while I am in there. Is OEM the way to go? I will be running the stock 1ZZ. 

 

Thanks!

2005 Spyders (Two in Paradise Blue Metallic, One Super White)
2007 S2000 (New Formula Red)
2007 Civic SI (Nighthawk Black Pearl) TBONED BY 1960 LINCOLN RIP
1970 Olds 442 W30 (Nugget Gold )

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Topic starter Posted : September 29, 2019 4:03 pm
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