NA mods on the 1zz ...
 
Share:
Notifications
Clear all

NA mods on the 1zz - ready for the firing squad.

Page 1 / 2
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin

I like playing and have the resources and time to do so, so why not share the fun. Parts are also cheep right now due to the age.

I like making these theoretical discussions of the potential of the 1zz, let alone other engines in our platform. I've gone down the rabbit hole of NA tuning and the theory behind it. I also went down the rabbit hole of researching the 1zz engine and am trying to discover what potential it has past the standard boltons. This isn't to say others haven't attempted to do so, but I want to take it from a different angle just for shits and giggles.. why not. lol

A few pieces of info to come out of the research...
Without cracking the head and modifying the valve sizes, we can calculate that the most efficient rpm will be around 4250 based off of the valve diameter(Valve Diameter = √((rpm × stroke × bore²) / 2,286,000) Diameter = the square root of X(the rpm) * 79(stroke)*91.5(stroke)^2). This aligns with Toyotas numbers and the torque curve peaking around 4200RPM.

We can do some math to calculate the flow of the engine..(SCFM(standard cubic feet per minute) = (109.5cu.in) X (target RPM) X 0.000298).. (this would also be the flow assuming 100% volumetric efficiency.)
At idle (~ 750 RPMs) - engine pulls in about 24 SCFM
At peak power (~ 4200 RPMs) - engine pulls in about 137 SCFM
At redline (~ 6400 RPMs) - engine pulls in about 209 SCFM

We could take a look at what the 1zz head flows, and based off of various users results, we can see where porting will help... Unfortunately I can't find any numbers. with that said, LR and DDPR have said there is headroom to be had, and Per CarlBecker on SC - "My spyder gained 3% on the intake and 18% on the exhaust for flow".

we can include the intake/exhaust duration to calculate the total flow in and out of the cylinders..
Intake duration = 240-deg (VVT timing = 5 BTDC to 55 ABDC thru 48 BTDC to 12 ABDC); Exhaust duration = 224-deg (42 BBDC to 2 ATDC)

32mm intake valves and 27.5mm exhaust valves
Intake lift = 9.3 mm (0.37 in)Exhaust lift = 8.4 mm

 

So, where am I going with all of this? I want to remove as many bottlenecks as possible from the system. This includes the entire intake system from filter to valves and on the exhaust side, from valve to clean air.. first, on the intake side, I've ordered a 2zz intake manifold that I am going to be modifying. I have a few ideas as to what and how, but it'll be bolting onto the 1zz. I know "They don't work because of the port angle, it hits, blah blah blah." This is where I'm different and make shit work that shouldn't. There was once an adaptor plate, and a few others made it work without one, so it'll be trial and error, and if it doesn't work, It'll be an experience in fabrication. I'll also be switching the TB to one from an Infiniti q45 or similar, and after that I'll be switching to a 3" intake into a custom air box. On the exhaust side, based on a few calculations, I'll be running a 4:1 header that's 1.75OD(around 1.62ID) with each runner having a length around 20" and merging into a 4:1 2.5" collector. The cherry on top is that I'm converting to e85. lol all in, I expect a cost of around $500 and a ton of time spent fabricating. 

 

that's it. roast away. 

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

Quote
Topic starter Posted : September 5, 2023 11:46 am
(@rdawg)
Trusted Member

Roast huh?  you've laid down the boundaries. You have time, resources and knowledge (and some of the parts are cheap).  Who can tell you how to spend "those" to make you happy.

Being said - you've turbo'd and unturbo'd, spent time tuning - is the end goal a work of art or an appreciable increase in HP.  I am sure you can likely come up with a good estimate of a HP goal doing a little crunching.  My (uninformed guess - maybe 25ish HP over stock with a header).  If all done for less than $500 and your new adaptor (which you are going to sell?) OK - it's cool, but still, the MAF Mod is 10 ish for $100? (or less) and only a (large) handful have done that.  (I have all the parts - but am lazy)

I am interested in the Ethanol work, but everyone knows I will never get to anything fun like switching (even if I sell all my 2zz stuff and buy a used turbo). If all you are doing is making it free flowing with timing and fuel, you may not need E85, might get away with E30 fixed.  No need to lose the energy with E85 if not boosted. But I don't know.

I suppose there are a million 1zz's out there. So I am sure you will be forever remembered for the contribution to that society.  I was going to say - knock yourself out - but that makes it sound like you are truly interested in my opinion. 🤣 

I am late 50s and realizing that I need to focus "those" items on impactful duties, but I still waste lots of time learning things I could pay others to due for less

I would like to know what you think you might get to in HP boost, just for giggles.

Good luck whatever you decide.

ReplyQuote
Posted : September 5, 2023 4:04 pm
dev_r6@hotmail.com
(@dev)
Just a member.

I see nothing wrong with self discovery. 

There is a lot of BS on many of the hobby sites I visit so I would take what people say as their biased optimism and then you find out for yourself with some myth busting.

I come across at least three people that claimed they were as fast as a 2ZZ with bolt ons. When asked they did the mental gymnastics by adding assumed power or it was a skewed dyno to make the customer happy.  So much fakery in our hobby. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : September 5, 2023 4:34 pm
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin

Posted by: @dev

I see nothing wrong with self discovery. 

There is a lot of BS on many of the hobby sites I visit so I would take what people say as their biased optimism and then you find out for yourself with some myth busting.

I come across at least three people that claimed they were as fast as a 2ZZ with bolt ons. When asked they did the mental gymnastics by adding assumed power or it was a skewed dyno to make the customer happy.  So much fakery in our hobby


I have no unrealistic expectations, and frankly have no desire to dynod it to find out if there are any gains. It’s a matter of exercise for me. Similar to the wing and pylons that I made. 

if I design some parts, I’ll offer them up to people.

and I could throw out a number I’d like to see, but having no quantifiable way to measure, it’s not worth it. Similarly, my car is lighter than stock, so it’s performance will already be increased regardless of power increase.. 

with that said. Having the pfc, intake, exhaust and light exhaust porting… based off the parts I’ll be throwing at it, paired with the apexi pfc. I expect to see some decent gains over stock, and by decent I don’t mean 2zz power, but rather modest gains from breathing better.. I think that paired with the increased ignition timing from the ethanol, I’ll see the most, but we’ll see..

 

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : September 5, 2023 7:09 pm
(@rdawg)
Trusted Member

A free flowing engine, Ethanol and tuning - you might be able to expand the torque curve and really make something interesting, especially for those who might want a little more grunt without swapping or reving the crap out of the engine.  It should be fun to follow. when I worked with the E85 (Flex fuel) team at GM, they were able to improve the 0-60 for full size truck applications by about 1/2 second and that engine wasn't as high of compression as the 1zz (but it was 5.3L 🙂)

ReplyQuote
Posted : September 6, 2023 7:56 am
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin

2zz intake manifold arrived. Let the fun begin. 
first thing to do is pull the 1zz manifold off. I’m going to figure out the differences dimension wise.  Looking at the 2zz head, the head has a greater angle than the 1zz does, and based off of everything I’ve read is all about the angle. This leads me to believe that while the 2zz angles the intake down towards the valves, the 1zz on the other hand, while still angles, it’s not nearly as aggressive of an angle towards the valves. 
without looking at the specifics and measuring, I am leaning on needing a spacer and longer screws to make this fit for the sheer fact of the bottom of the intake protruding into the block. So long as the intake ports and mounting bolts match up, this will end up being vastly easier than expected. I’ll have to figure out the spacer size for forment, but I’m wondering what the adapter of yesteryear comprised of.. I’ll have more to give later this evening. 

Quick measurements from photos of the mounting surfaces. 
2zz mount 32 degrees(roughly)

1zz mount 10 degrees(roughly)

This post was modified 9 months ago by Patrick Lipp

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : September 7, 2023 7:59 pm
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin
  • More measurements. 
    1zz throttle body

intake side - 66mm

butterfly flap - 55-56mm

manifold side - 60mm

1zz intake manifold - 59-60mm

1zz intake manifold head ports - 46mmx31mm

1zz head(engine)intake ports 51mmx30mm

 

2zz intake manifold - 65mm

Manifold head ports - 52mmx33mm

 

a couple things to note now that I have both manifolds off and can compare them.. The ports aren’t perfectly aligned, but they are very close. There’s only a mm or so difference, but the ports on the 2zz are larger, so that helps out as well.

the center bolt hole is not aligned the same as the 1zz manifold. The top two bolt holes match up perfectly between the two.. the bottom holes on the 1zz are not as wide as the 2zz..

This post was modified 9 months ago 4 times by Patrick Lipp

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : September 7, 2023 9:06 pm
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin

Ok, I have an idea for an adapter plate. I’m going to try and come up with one that will work. 

also, one of the discussions people had was the manifold being tuned for higher end.. shorter runners do normally aid in top end and longer for torque.. so I did a rough measurement from the outside.. 
the 1zz has unequal length runners with the lengths ranging from over 16” to under 15”. Similarly on the 2zz intake, I measure a pretty consistent 12” runner length. 

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : September 7, 2023 10:27 pm
LordTakuban reacted
LordTakuban
(@lordtakuban)
Member Admin

It sounds like you should be able to make a 3D printed adapter plate fairly easy (at least the first couple prototypes).  Fine tuning the ports will be the time consuming part, I'd imagine.

Get your Short Antennas, Decals, and all sorts of goodies at:
https://takubanmotorsports.com

ReplyQuote
Posted : September 8, 2023 10:23 am
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin

If I had a 3d printer, that would be great. Sadly I do not, so it’s design then I’ll probably print it to scale and then cross my fingers and order the prototype in aluminum.

This post was modified 9 months ago by Patrick Lipp

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : September 8, 2023 12:08 pm
LordTakuban reacted
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin

Both stainless pipes arrived for header. 1.75”OD should breathe more than enough. All into a 2.5” collector that I pre-welded a vband on that then connects to a flex pipe and then another vband into the muffler. 

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : September 8, 2023 8:44 pm
(@rdawg)
Trusted Member

@pattielipp you may not have3 a 3d printer - but there are places that will print for you at a very reasonable price - and you won't have to learn the details of different materials. Further you can do things in a print and may not be available in other forms of Fabrication.

Given this is for 1ZZ (I might even kick in (I have more than a passing interest in this cool project) I will try to dig into to print options.  I have a printer - but it wont be big enough for a single print - I dont think.  I will speak with the printing master that I know about doing in two parts.

 

This could be a cool deal....

 

Good luck

ReplyQuote
Posted : September 10, 2023 12:08 pm
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin

I’m still playing with this idea, so it’s not dead as of yet. While I’m at it, I’m also considering a 2zr swap. I’ve been chatting about it on the other site. It’s a common swap on the aw11. Uses the later c series trans and shares a ton of components with the 1zz, including the header and intake manifold mounting faces.. the trans mounts are the same as well, with the only difference between our trans and the c series it uses is the bell housing. 

I’ve been talking to some aw11 guys about an fe/fxe Frankenstein and it looks promising. This guy was able to pull around 150whp out of a 2zr-fe running fxe pistons which are 13:1cr. On the same dyno a stock 2zz makes around 155whp, so it’s got some promising power as a 2zz replacement And 1zz upgrade. 

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : October 2, 2023 7:30 pm
(@dblotii)
Estimable Member

@rdawg Some things to note about your 1zz project:

  • Based on decades of engine development experience, I can tell you to expect about 1% power increase for each 10% intake port flow-bench improvement.  You can get more if you raise the peak power rpm with long-duration cams.
  • It is really difficult to get a power improvement on a NA engine with Ethanol.  The increased flow needed for Ethanol actually displaces the inducted air supply and of course E85 also has the disadvantage of less energy density.  These things work against the increased intake cooling and higher Octane of E85.  To get an overall advantage you either need a boosted engine, or a very high compression ratio.
  • The low-end of the 1zz has a limited capacity for high revs and increased BMEP

Dave

ReplyQuote
Posted : October 3, 2023 8:53 am
Rdawg and Patrick Lipp reacted
dev_r6@hotmail.com
(@dev)
Just a member.

Posted by: @pattielipp

I’m still playing with this idea, so it’s not dead as of yet. While I’m at it, I’m also considering a 2zr swap. I’ve been chatting about it on the other site. It’s a common swap on the aw11. Uses the later c series trans and shares a ton of components with the 1zz, including the header and intake manifold mounting faces.. the trans mounts are the same as well, with the only difference between our trans and the c series it uses is the bell housing. 

I’ve been talking to some aw11 guys about an fe/fxe Frankenstein and it looks promising. This guy was able to pull around 150whp out of a 2zr-fe running fxe pistons which are 13:1cr. On the same dyno a stock 2zz makes around 155whp, so it’s got some promising power as a 2zz replacement And 1zz upgrade. 

The problem with the 2ZZ swap is varying dyno numbers depending on the condition of the motor and how it is set up.  In general stock makes 160hp so that is not too far off but with just an intake and the right down pipe it can make close to 170-175hp without a tune. It has more potential for quick bolt on power at the expense of more noise. In many ways it was the most economical way to a good power bump but those days are gone due to the condition of these motors.  

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : October 3, 2023 10:56 am
Patrick Lipp reacted
Page 1 / 2
Share: