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PFC Map Reference - Scaling for Load

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LordTakuban
(@lordtakuban)
Member Admin

Now that I have completed the physical portion of my build, I'm onto tuning this thing.  While it is still another 1ZZ, it is almost a completely different engine (larger bore, lower compression pistons, 650cc injectors, higher flow fuel pump, MWR springs, ... etc).  One thing I noticed while driving around yesterday is that I hit the bottom of the map for load.  This is something I've NEVER done before.  I haven't even come close to that with my previous turbo setup.  Also, I know that I'm running incredibly rich at that load amount.  This is still very early in the tuning process and I'm being as cautious as I can be.

Logged AFR 20230813

I also think this is throwing off my HP and TQ calculations:

Chart HPTQAFRetc 20230813

I highly doubt I'm making 337hp and 394tq at 4600rpm and 50% throttle.  I will say though that I did a battery disconnect to reset things and it was re-learning TPS a little.  But still...

Anyway, based on how I dove deep into load on that drive, I know that I need to adjust the load range to accommodate the new airflow that's coming in.  My question may be a bit too specific to this setup, but has anyone changed their displacement, turbo'd, and all that goodness with a PFC?  And if so, what were your max load values?  19000 seems like it's not high enough for mine now.

 

This topic was modified 10 months ago by LordTakuban

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Topic starter Posted : August 14, 2023 11:27 am
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin

you have a few options based on what you're seeing... load is going to be calculated based on the a calculation/correlation between/of RPM and MAF voltage/TPS.. 

I am going to assume you've maxed out your MAF and this is causing your issues. In this case, either increase the size of your MAF pipe or change the MAF sensor to that from (I believe) and STI. This will require a complete rework of the map though.

Alternatively you can rescale the map which is a feature that's built in. If you don't have it, I have a rescaled map for the 1zz if you want to take a look at it. 

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

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Posted : September 5, 2023 11:57 am
LordTakuban
(@lordtakuban)
Member Admin

@pattielipp 

Yep.  I plan to rescale the map.  I saw where to do it and how to do it.  My current question for now is what should I set the max at?  19000 is the current max.  My initial thoughts are to set the max to 24000 and re-interpolate the other values.

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Topic starter Posted : September 7, 2023 11:30 am
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin

@lordtakuban I’ll bring it back to my previous question. Are you in these load coordinates due to maxing out the maf or is it truly the scaling that’s off? In the short period of time I had my turbo, I never went much past the stock load cells, especially not early(are you building that much boost at 3000-3200rpm?). Check the logs for the maf voltage to see if that is the problem. 

part of the problem with this is the resolution of rhe

map. You have the same amount of cells/data points to work with regardless of the load and/or rpm. So if you have a max load value of 19,000 or 24,000, you’ll have less data points per load value with a higher max load amount vs a smaller. 
I don’t remember how it interpolates in between the cells, but the map still only

has so many data points it can save fuel and ignition data to. 

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

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Posted : September 7, 2023 12:38 pm
LordTakuban
(@lordtakuban)
Member Admin

@pattielipp 

I'm not sure if I'm maxing out the MAF or not.  I do have larger displacement and lower compression pistons than stock now.  I'm running 8.8:1 pistons and 2.0L bore.  I think that combined with the boost is pulling in much more air.  I do have a higher boost set now as well since I have the built internals. (around 12psi compared to 8psi previously).

If it is the MAF, do you know if the STi MAF is a direct replacement (same mounting, same harness connection)?

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Topic starter Posted : September 8, 2023 10:18 am
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin

I’m pretty sure the sti maf is a direct replacement, but I’d double check on sc to be sure. Alternatively, if you switch to a 3” maf, I have the info from KB years ago and a map that includes the air flow curve for it. 

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

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Posted : September 8, 2023 5:31 pm
LordTakuban
(@lordtakuban)
Member Admin

Thanks.  I think I'll be fine with the standard diameter.  But I'll look for the info on if the STi part is a direct replacement.

I realize that my increasing the max, I'm losing resolution, but I won't have much of a choice.

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Topic starter Posted : September 11, 2023 1:13 pm
LordTakuban
(@lordtakuban)
Member Admin

I ordered the STi MAF.  Aaron King did mention that it is a direct replacement. So I will see how that affects my plots.  I haven't re-scaled anything yet.  I'm hoping I can possibly even scale down to get higher resolution in the map depending on what the sensor returns.

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Topic starter Posted : September 11, 2023 2:20 pm
LordTakuban
(@lordtakuban)
Member Admin

I installed the STi MAF that I ordered.  I haven't had a chance to drive it yet, but I'll report back what I find.

Here are some pics to make this post more awesomer...

MAF Compare 01
MAF Compare 02

 As you can see there is a slight difference in the housing.  I'm not sure what all is different with the electronics.  But I'm hoping this will not max out when I get into boost.

Get your Short Antennas, Decals, and all sorts of goodies at:
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Topic starter Posted : September 21, 2023 4:29 pm
Galo
 Galo
(@galo)
Honorable Member

Is "awesomer" a word?

It looks like the Sti "tube" that extends into the air stream is slightly shorter than the Toyota's, + it doesn't have the open area.

Please get it installed and give us an update. For the heck of it, how much did it cost? I'm always up for an experiment 🤨 🤪 🤡 

"Think as we think", say many Spyder owners, "or you are abominably wicked, you are a toad". After I'd thought about, I said "I will then, be a toad."
Thank you, Stephen Crane

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Posted : September 21, 2023 10:13 pm
LordTakuban
(@lordtakuban)
Member Admin

It was about $90 on Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007WMG8A0?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I will know more after a week or so.  Basically this weekend will not see any work on the Mister Two.  So possibly next weekend?  I'll be sure to report back the results.  If it just completely doesn't work.  I do still have my perfectly good stock MAF (that just gets maxed out due to how much air I'm pulling in now).

Get your Short Antennas, Decals, and all sorts of goodies at:
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Topic starter Posted : September 22, 2023 11:31 am
dev_r6@hotmail.com
(@dev)
Just a member.

Posted by: @lordtakuban

I installed the STi MAF that I ordered.  I haven't had a chance to drive it yet, but I'll report back what I find.

Here are some pics to make this post more awesomer...

MAF Compare 01
MAF Compare 02

 As you can see there is a slight difference in the housing.  I'm not sure what all is different with the electronics.  But I'm hoping this will not max out when I get into boost.

 I also have the STI MAF that came with my Cobb intake. I switched it out. From what I remember reading the STI maf was popular in the Celica community because it does not max out like the stock one when using a lot of boost but it scales differently so it needs to be tuned appropriately. 

 

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Posted : September 22, 2023 5:53 pm
LordTakuban
(@lordtakuban)
Member Admin

The different scaling is likely what I need.  Luckily, the entire map is pretty rich right now so aside from costing a fortune in gas, it's pretty safe.  haha.  I'll be dialing the fuel back where appropriate once I'm able to log some more.  I don't have very aggressive timing advance either at this stage.  So I'll be able to dial that in a bit as well.  Hopefully, my oil leak woes are over now.  I'm going to mount a gopro in the engine bay while driving around to try to spot any other leaks that are visible when driving or under boost.

 

Get your Short Antennas, Decals, and all sorts of goodies at:
https://takubanmotorsports.com

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Topic starter Posted : September 25, 2023 10:08 am
LordTakuban
(@lordtakuban)
Member Admin

OK.  I finally got a chance to test things out this past weekend and the results are good!  The STi MAF is precisely what was needed.

Take a look at the new Logged AFR plot:

AFR STi MAF 20230930

You will notice I'm not bottoming out on the map this time compared to the pic I posted earlier.  You'll also notice I'm running pretty lean now.  So I've decided to add about 15% fuel across the entire base map and then adjust from there when I get more opportunities to literally "Test and Tune".  haha.

I should have just done this from the start and I would have been golden.  At least it was a very simple plug-n-play swap.  🙂

 

Get your Short Antennas, Decals, and all sorts of goodies at:
https://takubanmotorsports.com

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Topic starter Posted : October 2, 2023 10:17 am
dev_r6@hotmail.com
(@dev)
Just a member.

If you need an extra STI MAF just let me know. I have no use for it and it has been sitting in a box. 

 

 

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Posted : October 2, 2023 2:17 pm
LordTakuban reacted
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