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p0on
 p0on
(@p0on)
Active Member

I've been reading that getting the larger YZZF1 is the way to go (I have a 1ZZ).

Also read that the current ones coming from Thailand are not nearly as good as the Japanese ones.

Thoughts?  What would the OCI be?

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Posted : October 15, 2019 12:01 am
Dev
 Dev
(@dev)
Dev, The one and only. Moderator
Posted by: @p0on

I've been reading that getting the larger YZZF1 is the way to go (I have a 1ZZ).

Also read that the current ones coming from Thailand are not nearly as good as the Japanese ones.

Thoughts?  What would the OCI be?

Not true on both accounts.

All the Denso filters are the same because it’s has the same quality assurance. Toyota makes sure quality control is the same though testing. 
Use the smaller filter because it was designed for the application.  Even if you used the larger filter you won’t get any extra filtration so there is no benefit and with unknowns its better to play it safe.  
A lot of what people write  about on forums is mostly myths. Trust the manufacture unless there is a widespread known issue which can happen from time to time but on the whole there is a good rational for why certain parts are chosen and bigger is not always better.  

This post was modified 4 weeks ago 2 times by Dev
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Posted : October 15, 2019 12:15 am
p0on liked
Dev
 Dev
(@dev)
Dev, The one and only. Moderator

Let me give you an example of how messed up the internet is as I have come to know.  I don't have much knowledge on gear boxes so I never comment on them but I tend to read the discussions from people I assume know more then I.  After all of the stupid discussion of those  wanting straight cut gears to handle their increased power output under the impression that they are used in racing because they are  stronger with the downside being noise made me think it was a given.  It turns out its completely wrong and I never got good information because enthusiasts on car forums don't know what they are writing about including so called proclaimed experts. 

I finally found the right information and like everything else there is a rational of why straight cut gears are used in racing. Primarily for lightness of the entire transmission.  The helical gears are stronger and require stronger shafts and bearings to take the Axial stress. This means more weight.    There are a few other reasons but the moral of the story is not everything is what it appears to be by the simple minded people who are blinded by focusing one aspect of something and never seeing the big picture and rational of trying to win a race at the expense of longevity of its components.  

Its best to source good information from books or trusting the manufacture who has done failure testing.  Sometimes the manufacture gets it wrong but on the whole they are better than some random guy on the internets that some people follow blindly without any documentation or literature backing up claims.  

 

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Posted : October 15, 2019 1:20 pm
dblotii
(@dblotii)
Eminent Member

@dev

The best oil filters are the ones with an ASTM test efficiency rating of better than 98%.  Not all premium filters use filter media that has the same trapping efficiency for sub 15 micron particles.  Check out the specs for Purolator Pure-1 or the better Bosch or even Fram filters.  If a filter manufacturer does not publish the results of these tests, I would not use it in my engine.

 

Dave

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Posted : October 15, 2019 4:24 pm
Dev
 Dev
(@dev)
Dev, The one and only. Moderator
Posted by: @dblotii

@dev

The best oil filters are the ones with an ASTM test efficiency rating of better than 98%.  Not all premium filters use filter media that has the same trapping efficiency for sub 15 micron particles.  Check out the specs for Purolator Pure-1 or the better Bosch or even Fram filters.  If a filter manufacturer does not publish the results of these tests, I would not use it in my engine.

 

Dave

One of  most important thing for me when choosing a filter is the construction of the filter. Some filters like Fram had a bad reputation for this with their filters collapsing and using poor quality construction like cardboard.  It should have a strong shell.  Some filters like the budgeted no name filters that  that some service centers carry in bulk can be cheap quality to make margins are not very good but most of the ones found in auto parts stores are of reasonable quality.    

The other thing I look for in a filter is having good flow characteristics where it doesn't trade efficiency for flow. There was a Fram filter that did just that where it was very efficient  but had poor flow that was measured by Bob  of bobistheoil guy himself back in the day.  

The reason why I stick with Denso is primarily for a few good reasons. 

 I have trust in the manufactures filter particularly Denso because they manufacture quality filters that were designed and tested for the application with cars that have run the longer 10k mile oil changes. If there are any manufacturing issues with these filters I would know about it because many Toyotas are serviced at the dealer.  

 The other reason why I like Denso is mainly because they have excellent quality control and im assured to have a quality filter every time.  And the last reason is they are reasonably priced and available on Amazon, Ebay and the dealer.   I use Puralator in my beater because I don't really care and I know its of reasonable quality.  

 

 

 

 

This post was modified 4 weeks ago by Dev
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Posted : October 15, 2019 4:52 pm
dblotii
(@dblotii)
Eminent Member

@dev

I agree that Denso products are known for excellent quality control, but I will not use their oil filters until I can find test results that show that the filter paper they use traps particles as small as the Bosch or Pure-1.

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Posted : October 16, 2019 2:14 pm
dblotii
(@dblotii)
Eminent Member

@dev

I use the larger 2zz filter and it should have a slightly (maybe immeasurable) lower pressure-drop.  It has more filter media area. I even use it in my son's Prius.

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Posted : October 16, 2019 2:19 pm
Dev
 Dev
(@dev)
Dev, The one and only. Moderator

Thats completely  your decision. I do not believe you are benefited in any way by using the larger filter. Every manufacture likes to streamline their filters and if one filter can fit  a number of applications they would do so because it saves money.  Honda does this.  

There should not be any benefit to more filtration even if there is more media because it will not get saturated and clogged  for the oil change interval. I would rather have the smaller foot print  so it least likely to get damaged by debris. 

I would change my mind if there was an oil analysis to prove larger filters benefit normal oil change intervals but I bet it doesn't.  There have been many UOA done on Toyota/lexus cars and trucks that use the Denso filters and when they use quality synthetic oils show very low wear numbers.  If there was anything wrong  with the oil filters it would show higher than normal wear and particulate in the oil to prove that the factory filter is lacking but that is not the case. The burden of proof is to prove aftermarket  filters are better then factory filters. 

In regard to Denso I trust them.  There were Lexus limousines that were only serviced from the dealer and they accumulated many hundreds of thousands of miles without any issues. Many of the cars that have been serviced from Toyota/ Lexus  end up trouble free and do not suffer any kind of premature engine wear by using Denso filters.  The Toyota way is offering quality fluids and filters and I don't see them skimping on the quality as some of these factory fluids have been analyzed and never came up short, in fact they were proven to be better then some off the shelf fluids.   Toyota doesn't skimp on quality but if you use anything else you might be taking chances with their products because some of these manufactures can fudge data, lack the same quality control, and having in-between fit applications that might be a one size for many applications that is not optimal.  Toyota doesn't do this as they are committed to having you as a life long customer and thats why I trust them and their philosophy of building quality cars and the service that goes with it.  

 

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Posted : October 16, 2019 2:58 pm
haloruler64
(@haloruler64)
Reputable Member

My mother's 2000 Lexus RX 300 made it to 207k with only dealer service before she traded it in. Left the house in a gray 2000 and came back in a gold 2001. But it had 60k miles on it! Drove that to I think 160k before she traded it in for a 2017. My MR2 takes only OEM Denso filters, not the big boys, but I won't comment on that. Not my forte. Just hit 150k today.

2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder, 2017 Lexus CT200h F Sport

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Posted : October 16, 2019 4:36 pm
Dev
 Dev
(@dev)
Dev, The one and only. Moderator

I have been doing quiet a bit of reading. It would seem that the Denso filter is not very efficient as with Honda factory filters. 

I have known for a long time that there are trade offs between efficiency and flow. 

 The schools of thought are this. 

 1. Flow is more important than efficiency.

2. Efficiency  is more important than flow.  

 I have seen some of the Puralaor filters on anecdotal evidence and hearsay that they found the media collapsed on extended intervals. There is also some anecdotal hearsay that the shells are not as tough as other filters also. 

 I have also read that Fram has different oil filters depending on the application. Apparently their racing filters favor flow.  

In the end there is no definitive proof and it could be that its a wash if you were to compare used oil though analysis.  

For me I have seen countless UOA from other cars including mine that use the Denso filters and no issues with extremely low wear numbers that is attributed by the oil used.  

 What is important to me is having a properly constructed filter that was engineered precisely for my engine.  

I found this tread interesting because it gives good evidence that Toyota has put a lot of thought into designing their oil filters for the application. 

https://parts.olathetoyota.com/tundra-oil-filter-comparison

 

And one last link of the many the summarize why you need to be carful when making guesses.  

Can the Incorrect Oil Filter Affect Engine Oil Pressure?

 

The bottom line is, don't try to fix what is not broken.  There is a much deeper rational that the engineers have figured out though extensive scientific testing. 

 

This post was modified 4 weeks ago by Dev
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Posted : October 17, 2019 10:27 am
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