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samxerxesn
(@samxerxesn)
Active Member

I've gone crazy during quarantine and decided to look into a TRD supercharger. I don't know if I'm going to go with the option of modding the firewall or the charger itself yet, but I thought I'd ask some preliminary questions.

  1. How much does a supercharger itself usually cost? I haven't looked at prices over time, so I don't know if the one I found for $2k is usual or not.
  2. I've heard there are toyota ecus that already have a tune for the charger. Is this true?
  3. Since the charger I get will probably be used, what maintenance should I do on it first? What signs would I look for to know if it's badly damaged before install? 

Thank you for your help! 

Quote
Topic starter Posted : April 29, 2020 5:30 pm
Petrus
(@petrus)
Reputable Member

They came with a Toyota plug & plag piggyback ECU and a 5th injector for the extra power juice.  Have sériously lookied into as it seems to be the ´simplest´upgrade for modest but very usable power.  Also neat and totally under the radar. Besides that I am smitten with the supercharger principle.

On Spyderchat there was mention of óne successfully modded Spyder. It had the supercharger skimmed and reduced so it would fit. The ´Corky´ person was involved. I have not been able to find active contacts or concrete information.

An additional thing is that each and every TRD supercharger kit for the 1ZZ will be like 15-20 years old yet pricey ánd likely to need a revision. Although that is possible, it will make the proposition more costly still.

In the light of the modest power upgrade I thought 2-2.5K$ to be reasonable for the install but that it totally not feaseble.

Next I looked at the TTE turbo. Again a Toyota after market kit. Again a very neat and complete kit with a plug and play piggyback.  Alas; again pricey for at least 15 y.o. used stuff.

Now Í, over here, am limited by homologation rules so basically screwed but in countries with more liberty a modern turbo install would be the solution. The crux is Not, NÓT!!! to go overboard with max power as a street use Spyder is sweetest to drive with a modest increase and smooth low end torque. You can easily get away with air/air intercooling thus a simpler install. There is ample experience with aftermarket ECUs.

Next I should mention the Rotrex option. With modest power gains as the goal, this it the simplest install of all. Costly though and not free of issues as there si very limited experience with aftermarket ECUs for this application.

The new kid on the block is the Power Amp; an electrical turbo. Although it works and is a simple install there are two snags. First no other install so nó experience with the ECU. Secondly it works like a Nitro install; under a button, not all the time under the pedal.

So that leaves.... Nitro. Definitely an option, very simple to install and a relatively economic one too BUT only on the button and the least safe of all.

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : April 29, 2020 9:21 pm
Patrick Lipp
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin

I don't remember much detail, but for a while the Rotrex style blowers got pretty popular on SC. There were multiple successful installations with no modding to the firewall. 

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

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Posted : April 30, 2020 7:19 am
Petrus
(@petrus)
Reputable Member
Posted by: @pattielipp

I don't remember much detail, 

No details being the common denominator....

I tried REALLY hard to track down specifics and dug up nóthing.

Also all at least 15 year óld hearsay. Found that a bit sketchy to spend 2k+ on for an old kit.

Although functionally different of course, a two stage progressive NOs system is say 1K . Also the Spyder is about ideal for an istall with véry short lines. There is even more info about NOs than over turbo!

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Posted : April 30, 2020 8:12 am
dev
 dev
(@dev)
Just a member. Moderator

Im not claiming I know for sure but I was there when much of this was being developed. 

 The TRD supercharger had issues with fitment were the firewall had to be cut to fit and some other problems. I think it had parasitic losses that wasn't ideal  and delimitation of the roots. Also I believe their was not much aftermarket support to fix issues. From what I remember it was a bit problematic. 

 The Rotrex option  was pioneered by Web 3.0 that did great work and was able to make a kit that included almost everything.  High quality  parts for both 1ZZ and 2ZZ. It came with a alternator relocation kit and it was tuned very well with support for the tune.  Everyone who had the kit was very satisfied. 

 You should contact Grumpy as I believe he has the kit and can shed some light on the Rotrex super charger. 

 The best option by far is the turbo kits.  They seem to have lots of options, easy installation and can be serviced. 

 I seen a Youtube video the other day for Turbos that are oil less which is remarkable.  

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : April 30, 2020 11:31 am
Petrus
(@petrus)
Reputable Member
Posted by: @dev

 

 The best option by far is the turbo kits.  They seem to have lots of options, easy installation and can be serviced. 

 

All is relative 🤤 

ReplyQuote
Posted : April 30, 2020 12:06 pm
marsrock7
(@marsrock7)
Reputable Member

Man...a turbo free of oil lines... Now that sounds like a trouble free install to me! 

ReplyQuote
Posted : April 30, 2020 5:07 pm
samxerxesn
(@samxerxesn)
Active Member
Posted by: @dev

Im not claiming I know for sure but I was there when much of this was being developed. 

 The TRD supercharger had issues with fitment were the firewall had to be cut to fit and some other problems. I think it had parasitic losses that wasn't ideal  and delimitation of the roots. Also I believe their was not much aftermarket support to fix issues. From what I remember it was a bit problematic. 

 The Rotrex option  was pioneered by Web 3.0 that did great work and was able to make a kit that included almost everything.  High quality  parts for both 1ZZ and 2ZZ. It came with a alternator relocation kit and it was tuned very well with support for the tune.  Everyone who had the kit was very satisfied. 

 You should contact Grumpy as I believe he has the kit and can shed some light on the Rotrex super charger. 

 The best option by far is the turbo kits.  They seem to have lots of options, easy installation and can be serviced. 

 I seen a Youtube video the other day for Turbos that are oil less which is remarkable.  

 

I remember seeing a lot of the FI stuff on SpyderChat as well, but I didn't keep up with it. I found the old posts on modifying the charger, but nothing in the way of exact measurements. While it looked simple (about 30 degrees to the runner and 1/2 inch off the plenum) I was considering cutting the firewall and putting in a plexiglass bubble so I can see the TRD goodness in the tackiest way possible hahaha. 

Anyways, as Petrus said, I'm just completely smitten with the idea of linear superchargers, and frankly I'd take a Rotrex over a turbo. I just don't like the mess that comes with turbo systems, and I don't yet trust oil-less systems. Fast moving things need oil, and hot fast moving things really need oil. plane and simple. 

Thing is, I'd never heard of the parasitic losses being that bad, and that's actually what's giving me second thoughts. I liked the plug-and-play daily driver friendliness of the roots charger, but if it too needs supporting mods then I haven't actually achieved what I wanted. if lightweight pulleys are enough, maybe even light cams, that's okay, but anything else gives me reason to let it stay a fun daydream rather than ruin it with a lackluster build.

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : April 30, 2020 10:14 pm
DesertWanderer
(@desertwanderer)
Reputable Member

@samxerxesn The Rotrex C30-94 that I had on my S2000 was great! I had the kit from KraftWerks, which we had a lot of problems with, but the Rotrex was good. The Rotrex was guaranteed for 50,000 miles and mine made it to 125,000 miles before it (the C30-94) literally blew up.

Two BIG things. Do not overspin it and do not rotate the pulley in the direction opposite to ordinary rotation. DO NOT!

2005 Spyders (Two in Paradise Blue Metallic, One Super White)
2007 S2000 (New Formula Red)
2007 Civic SI (Nighthawk Black Pearl) TBONED BY 1960 LINCOLN RIP
1970 Olds 442 W30 (Nugget Gold )

ReplyQuote
Posted : April 30, 2020 10:52 pm
Petrus
(@petrus)
Reputable Member
Posted by: @samxerxesn

I remember seeing a lot of the FI stuff on SpyderChat as well, but I didn't keep up with it. I found the old posts on modifying the charger, but nothing in the way of exact measurements. While it looked simple (about 30 degrees to the runner and 1/2 inch off the plenum) I was considering cutting the firewall and putting in a plexiglass bubble so I can see the TRD goodness in the tackiest way possible hahaha. 

Anyways, as Petrus said, I'm just completely smitten with the idea of linear superchargers, and frankly I'd take a Rotrex over a turbo. I just don't like the mess that comes with turbo systems, and I don't yet trust oil-less systems. Fast moving things need oil, and hot fast moving things really need oil. plane and simple. 

Thing is, I'd never heard of the parasitic losses being that bad, and that's actually what's giving me second thoughts. I liked the plug-and-play daily driver friendliness of the roots charger, but if it too needs supporting mods then I haven't actually achieved what I wanted. if lightweight pulleys are enough, maybe even light cams, that's okay, but anything else gives me reason to let it stay a fun daydream rather than ruin it with a lackluster build.

The TRD kit was a dealer option for Corollas, Celicas and Vibe. It was trouble free plug & play when installed as a complete kit following the instruction manual. The ´parasitic´ losses are inherent to the mechanical losses of such a compressor; it is not a fuel economy thing. Also power gains are modest when compaired to a turbo. 

The delightful simplicity of the supercharger ánd it being basically a factory offering had me lust for it. The modest power gains are ok with me as I think the lightweight Spyder easily has too much oompf.

The additional lines and intercooling needed for turbo/rotrex as well as the plumbing of exhaust/intake make that a nono for mé. It is a lót of extra complications with all very real potential issues. The TRD sc basically only needs a longer belt as ´complication´.

But als, it is no longer a practical thing.

This thread has made me look at NOs again btw. If like in the US it would be simple to have the bottle recharged, I´d probably have such installed already. A 45 hp two stage progressive boost would be tops and supersimple to install without affecting the rest.

 

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 1, 2020 4:47 am
samxerxesn
(@samxerxesn)
Active Member
Posted by: @petrus
Posted by: @samxerxesn

I remember seeing a lot of the FI stuff on SpyderChat as well, but I didn't keep up with it. I found the old posts on modifying the charger, but nothing in the way of exact measurements. While it looked simple (about 30 degrees to the runner and 1/2 inch off the plenum) I was considering cutting the firewall and putting in a plexiglass bubble so I can see the TRD goodness in the tackiest way possible hahaha. 

Anyways, as Petrus said, I'm just completely smitten with the idea of linear superchargers, and frankly I'd take a Rotrex over a turbo. I just don't like the mess that comes with turbo systems, and I don't yet trust oil-less systems. Fast moving things need oil, and hot fast moving things really need oil. plane and simple. 

Thing is, I'd never heard of the parasitic losses being that bad, and that's actually what's giving me second thoughts. I liked the plug-and-play daily driver friendliness of the roots charger, but if it too needs supporting mods then I haven't actually achieved what I wanted. if lightweight pulleys are enough, maybe even light cams, that's okay, but anything else gives me reason to let it stay a fun daydream rather than ruin it with a lackluster build.

The TRD kit was a dealer option for Corollas, Celicas and Vibe. It was trouble free plug & play when installed as a complete kit following the instruction manual. The ´parasitic´ losses are inherent to the mechanical losses of such a compressor; it is not a fuel economy thing. Also power gains are modest when compaired to a turbo. 

The delightful simplicity of the supercharger ánd it being basically a factory offering had me lust for it. The modest power gains are ok with me as I think the lightweight Spyder easily has too much oompf.

The additional lines and intercooling needed for turbo/rotrex as well as the plumbing of exhaust/intake make that a nono for mé. It is a lót of extra complications with all very real potential issues. The TRD sc basically only needs a longer belt as ´complication´.

But als, it is no longer a practical thing.

This thread has made me look at NOs again btw. If like in the US it would be simple to have the bottle recharged, I´d probably have such installed already. A 45 hp two stage progressive boost would be tops and supersimple to install without affecting the rest.

 

 

 

Funnily enough I brought up NOS on spyderchat because it would be easy to hide the bottle under the frunk and skip all of that safety venting since it's not inside the car, but they all laughed at me because NOs is a straight line kind of thing. It is most useful that way, as a single can of NOs doesn't last very long, but it's still a fun way to boost speed every now and again.

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Topic starter Posted : May 1, 2020 11:56 am
marsrock7 liked
dev
 dev
(@dev)
Just a member. Moderator

Coincidentally this was posted two days ago. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 1, 2020 12:46 pm
marsrock7 liked
Petrus
(@petrus)
Reputable Member

@dev

 

The new kid I mentioned, the electric centrifugal compressor, is definitely a contender but the Toyota ECU is a troublesome costly spoke in the wheel.

The TRD sc, TTE turbo with their Toyota piggybag and Nitrous kits with their own fuel balance are the only short cuts eliminating the latter.

 

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Posted : May 1, 2020 4:47 pm
Petrus
(@petrus)
Reputable Member
Posted by: @samxerxesn

but they all laughed at me because NOs is a straight line kind of thing. 

Thínk about that. 

When do you need more power going through the twisty bits?  Secondly, you basically only need more power at full throttle because at any other throttle opening you still have more power availeble on tap! 

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 1, 2020 4:58 pm
dev
 dev
(@dev)
Just a member. Moderator
Posted by: @petrus

@dev

 

The new kid I mentioned, the electric centrifugal compressor, is definitely a contender but the Toyota ECU is a troublesome costly spoke in the wheel.

The TRD sc, TTE turbo with their Toyota piggybag and Nitrous kits with their own fuel balance are the only short cuts eliminating the latter.

 

Not necessarily. You can use a blue E-manage Piggyback for the turbo kit or some other boost options that  work well with the stock ECU. This is how the original Hass kits were and have now been bought out by turbo kits. A good friend of mine had this set up and had no issues.  You can probably get more out of a stand alone but it’s not needed. 

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Posted : May 1, 2020 5:01 pm
marsrock7 liked
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