So, it's come to this.

Good morning esteemed community members.   Yes.  We have locked the "Wuhan" thread, for now.  Members of this community can discuss, debate, agree, disagree, espouse ideology (as long as it does not include promoting actions that are illegal/unethical) promote religious freedom, etc until the cows come home.  I will monitor for inappropriate behavior -- a job, I must say, I really don't like having to perform but a responsibility that was requested of me and which I agreed to many months ago.  In the early days of this forum there was quite a discussion about moderation of the forum.  It pretty much boiled down to respect and limited use of profanity.  My personal approach would be respect and no profanity, but I do not moderate by my rules, I moderate by the rules the community wisely developed.

The "Wuhan" thread was temporarily closed mostly so that folks have time to reflect about the importance of rules (in this case very few rules) for maintaining civility on a forum such as this and then consciously choose how they post so that postings are done with respect for the community and respect for the rules of the community.  At times, folks may not want to show respect to other community members -- that's just human nature.  I would ask that when that happens, please show respect to the community rules which we will work at keeping to a minimum and employing equitably amongst all members.  Will we be perfect at that task?  Probably not, but that is our goal and our responsibility.  

To all members here on MR2-Spyder: thank you for being a significant and valuated member of this community.  Please continue to post to your heart's content within the parameters described above.

This is for everyone. 

For the record I have recused myself from moderating the thread in question but I was the one that locked it until UM and LT can decided how they would like to proceed as it was temporary and it might be reopened. I felt that there were certain lines crossed by everyone even though I may have agreed with many opinions that I felt were valid I cannot be bias when it comes to moderation and it wasn't coming from only one person, it was across the board. 

When we were setting up the rules of this board we made some basic rules regarding personal attacks. Examples were given that you can say that someone is being  obtuse, misguide or wrong for their opinions and why, which is different then devolving into personal attacks of character that will incite retaliation which moves it away from the subject that is being discussed.  You can rant all you want about any public figures or say you think the moon is made of Swiss cheese but what you cant do is denigrate a members reputation and character.    

There were some things that did concern me that must be clear to those who love censorship. Anyone can post anything they like as long as it doesn't violate the rules here even if it is not "vetted". This whole thing about vetting and censorship of peoples opinion because its loony to some is not what we do here and if people believe bad information thats on them for not being informed. I have seen other boards do this and its Orwellian. Learn to critically think for yourself. 

 In regards rules we have them but often times we let some of it go like occasional profanity slips or a gray areas of personal denigration against someone as we cant be Niazis enforcing like we are on a power trip but what we can do is pace  threads to keep them on tack without people fighting it out. On other forums they will go into threads and remove your words or sensor what you have written. We don't do that here but we try to advise at best how to move forward for sake of the community with the least amount of moderation. 

 One other thing I should mentioned. The four of us that have the keys are equal members and equal to all of you. There is no hierarchy here to play off on like other forums.  

Well I guess that's that.  I'll come here when I'm looking for parts and nothing more.

For the record, I do not personally believe that anybody crossed a line in that thread.  It was a civil exchange with a few quasi-personal comments thrown in.  

I'll quote my teenage daughters here....

"whatever."

Posted by: @pwnzor

Well I guess that's that.  I'll come here when I'm looking for parts and nothing more.

 

For the record, I do not personally believe that anybody crossed a line in that thread.  It was a civil exchange with a few quasi-personal comments thrown in.  

I'll quote my teenage daughters here....

 

"whatever."

   I have received a number of complaints from members that wanted me to shut it down and were very pissed that it was allowed to continue. I imagine they also feel the same way of not continuing here as a result.

I advocated to keep it open letting them know that it doesn't rise to that level of closing it although it started to cross the line as the moderation was a guide to keep it on pace. It got to a point that it was very close to being closed for good but I asked for it to continue and at the time we thought we could contain it but it was not going in a positive direction as there is a lot more going on that you don't know. One of the main reasons why it was not shut down earlier is because we couldn't find the lock button in the software. 

 One group will  disagree  with the other group on how they would like it to be run, no board is perfect they all have these issues, people get pissed an no longer want to take part. It happens given enough time and it is enviable. 

All I ask is that you reconsider and let this go. We are all friends here and this was bound to happen, no one is going to be happy about it but it will pass.

As long as it's contained in that thread, I think it should probably be left open. As of yesterday I didn't see any behavior that would require locking it, though maybe that might have changed today.

The thread is now open. UM wanted there to be a cooling off period. 

 Please be kind to each other. 

   Most people don't know this but what has destroyed many iterations of Spyder forums is precisely politics and hatred for each other. If you ever wondered why posts only start in 2003 on SC is because someone was so mad that they decided to wreck the software and make the board disappear.  After that it started up again with a racial component against a member and the board became fractured again to where Don made a move and took over all operations as members who created  the place exited or were asked to step down because they couldn't stand one another.  

 Board went though more of this with a lot more members joining in and politics running wild with no moderation which caused some to escalate  to where physical threats were made. It wasn't something that happened overnight, it happened over a period of a few years.  We move to somewhere else when the board was fractured  and the same thing where we are cannibalizing each other and everyone exiting or not participating.   

 I like political debate because brings out interesting discussion but not if it destroys the board and therefore our rules against personal attacks of character  are enforced to stop it in its tracks because it will always progress to where someone is going to leave and take their friends with them and others will leave because they feel that this board lacks moderation.  

 As moderators myself and UM are not perfect and we certainly are not going to please everyone but we are trying to strike a balance and working with the rules to keep the peace with the least amount of moderation. 

I will just add that I absolutely HATE political discussion and threads that contain them.  Some people know this about me, maybe most people do.  If this was site was not run the way it is where the community as a whole decides the standards, i would be shutting down every single political thread and banning all who post political garbage.  That is an extreme approach I would prefer due to my personal preferences.

But this is not a site like that.  Hopefully, it sinks in what kind of community this is that we are growing.

At one point a couple weeks ago I thought I opened the wrong website. Yikes!

I think the cooling off period was a good idea.
I’m not into censorship. I was raised with instructions that a well bred man avoids discussions on politics, sex and money at parties. Within reason that’s a pretty decent start. While I remain capable of being civil, admittedly as I’ve aged and lived, I have lost the interest in continuing to be polite and risk allowing you to disclose your idiocy unchallenged. We likely agree on that. It is less stressful and more fitting that here we discuss cars and those things loosely related to our cars.  We can save the other topics for some less relevant forum.

Meh.  I won't participate in any real discussions here unless it relates to cars.  

Rules are rules and I'll be over at BadWeatherBikers.com discussing things. 

In here I'll ask and answer questions about my car.  It's really fine.

I have a suggestion.  Make an "Off-Topic" sub-forum that adheres to these rules:

1. Is invisible to anyone who is not a member.
2. Does not show up in recent posts feed for members.
3. Defines what constitutes Off-Topic.
4. Threads can be moved to this sub-forum if they fall under Off-Topic.

This way, you must choose to enter this subspace.  Then it becomes a matter of organization instead of censorship.

I belong to another forum of int'l pro battle-DJs (digitalvertigo.co.uk) and this setup works.  Just an idea.

We had the same on a few forums I've been part of, including being hidden from everyone. It worked out well.

Or, maybe people could just not read whatever they don't want to read.  

It's the Internet.  Everything is everywhere, but we don't have to look at squirrel porn if we don't want to.  You just click over THERE instead of over HERE.

If a thread gets derailed, and the content no longer fits the title, then lock it, squash it, squirrel it, whatever.  

The thread was about the Wuhan Virus - the title itself is political in nature.  Some people believe it's racist to call it anything Chinese.  So it's going to get charged up, people will get heated.  At the end of the day, if anybody comes away from reading an internet thread and ACTUALLY gets angry about it.... well, then that person maybe shouldn't be let near computing devices.

Just saying.

Posted by: @pwnzor

 

'Everything is everywhere, but we don't have to look at squirrel porn if we don't want to."

Yes you do!