Crate EV Motor

I kind of predicted this. At about 10 years ago I predicted that conversion kits will be in our future but then when the leaf came out I noticed that that the motor and transmission assembly looked like a four cylinder long block. 

 I guess we are here now in time and there are going to be plenty of conversion kits based on a variety of designs and options to choose from and not too far in the distant dystopian future it will be mandatory conversion for those that like to keep our cars.  At least the incentive for more torque with less complexity is welcoming. 

I assume I have another 30-35 years in me (55 years old now). I hope not to be part of the dystopian future. The crate motor does look like an interesting idea if of high torque and decent performance. The battery issue will be a potential problem (access and cost) however. For old ICE cars in the future, we’ll be able to use them, but probably with mileage per year restrictions (like a classic insured by Grundy or Haggerty). I would get an electric car if it’s of decent performance and can be used for cross country driving (more range, quicker to charge, and price on par with an ICE car- also, more accessible charging network if the govt. wants this to work).

I saw this in my feed this morning too... At only 110hp, I immediately started wondering how hard it would be to put one of these in the front and rear of the Spyder... Or one of these in rear coupled with hub mounted motors in front. 

My first thought for battery location is where the fuel tank already sits. 

There is plenty of room for the Spyder.  The fuel tank and the entire cubby area should be a good deal of space.  If not we have the frunk to exploit. I think one advantage an all electric car has is having the batteries at a low center of gravity.  

 The problem right now is making strides in battery technology.  There have been some interesting things made that wasn't possible before in the forum of tools and other electronics  but its quiet possible that no matter how hard we try there might a physics/ chemistry  issue that cant be solved and this whole electric car thing will just be a novelty.   

 I was taken back by Apples failure to make those revolutionary augmented reality game changing glasses that they threw a bunch of money at. They just about ditched the project when they reached an impasse which they stated that its impossible unless there are major breakthoughs.  

 Maybe its time for some of that alien tech from S4.   

@neomr2,

Your timing is spooky. I was thinking about this all weekend, was going to post a new thread later today. Thank you for posting links.

@dev,

You speak as though EV is a failure (will be just a novelty). Actually, in spite of how sophisticated modern ICEs have become, perhaps the ICE is what will be called a novelty.

@erdoc48,

The problem now, for political reasons I will refrain from delving into at length, is that anything the government does is considered bad by about half of the population. (And in fairness the other near-half thinks the govt is the answer to everything and can never do wrong).

The govt could come up with a $1 cure for cancer and, well, you know the political poison-word they will attach to it to transform "teamwork" into "evil".

So there won't be any nationwide charging network here in the US. We would rather just bicker extreme polar opposite views, endlessly, and the only accomplishment will be adding this to the growing list of things where the USA fails to show leadership.

---

Last week I was out in The Frog with my son, and unbeknownst to me a Tesla Model 3 pulled up at a red light next to me. Of course, I didnt hear him over there. Light turned green, and I let The Frog run spirited-but-not-stupid-ly. I finally noticed the Model 3 as it left me there looking like I wasn't even moving. Dude was going 50 mph before I even got done winding out second gear. I WANT THAT S**T IN THE FROG!

So, the crate motor is 110 hp for 150 lbs. IIRC, the 1ZZfed is 300 lbs.

The power source is significantly more massive, (batteries weigh a lot more than gasoline) but the motor needs no transmission, alternator, muffler and so forth.  Roughly speaking, you would end up taking a hit to raw HP, but probably not to the HP/lbs ratio. How much does all that ICE-related gear weigh?

The idea of mounting two of these is appealing, if it doesn't hit the suspension too hard. I am too newb to really understand what would happen if you attached both motors to the rear wheels independently, but with some electronic control (ugh....), wouldn't this effectively be the same as a LSD?

There are far more hurdles when it comes to EV with current technology.  Major investments will have to go towards grid infrastructure charging and rural area access, cold weather performance not to mention disposal and mining of lithium to meet demand.  Unless they can overcome these hurdles including safety its going to be awhile until they can match the practicality of fossil fuels. I can see that fossil fuel still has a competing  future with cleaner burning tech that could make electric vehicles  impractical pie in the sky dead end where they just don't have the evolving tech because they hit actual barriers until major breakthroughs are made on the scale of the Manhattan project.  

 What I do actually foresee is something much worse where it doesn't involve cars at all.  A complete paradigm shift where more people work at home, mass transit or Uber/lift  like service and everything comes to your house. Rise of the robots will put people out of work and possibly make our society able to have more free time for intellectual pursuits.   The days of traffic jams will be a milestone in our evolutionary history with a hub cap on the side of the road to remind us of  the good old days ready to be picked up by a cleaning robot. 

 This is the trajectory we are on. Malls are decaying ghost towns and people are getting connected more to the internets than real life. 

@nottamiata

You are not going to be even slightly impressed by 110 HP unless you can get the total vehicle weight down about 1500 lbs

@dev,

For better or worse, I agree with much of what you are saying. But we're getting close to the politics flame again, so we should leave it here.

I will say on the way out, however, that many of the same arguments were used during the transition from horse to motor. And they were just as salient also. But the breakthroughs do happen.

I will miss driving too. Not the traffic or scary other drivers, but all the pleasant things we get -- in spades -- with these awesome little buggies.

@dblotii,

Thats why you install two! Or, as above, hope that by the time your current engine dies we can get a 175+ version.

What im getting at is what we think the future is going to be, is not necessarily where we will be to be relevant for both sides of the issue. The whole electric car thing might just be an obsolete  novelty but not for the reasons we might think when more bizarre technological cultural shifts take us down a different paths that can completely change a generation. 

 In other news I passed my emissions test and now I have two more to go before I will be free of them forever.  I will still keep the catalytic converter because I believe in their health impact on our population.     

Now if that crate motor had a 250-300 HP rating .....at similar weight ......

lithium mining is done through lithium salt-brine drying and refining. naturally occurring lithium salted brine pools are harvested and dried to get the lithium in a solid from them. it's not as invasive as copper mining. 

As for electric motors in a car, a crate motor approach would be great except for that we don't have modular battery packs yet that can be linked up together and fitted into any form factor of car quickly, making the crate motor a bit less impressive as a timesaving measure

Interestingly similar to PC water-cooling: Because of the cooling requirements of a battery pack, it may be that modular packs would have top include coolant in-out ports that need to be plumbed after physical fastening of the packs together into the form factor shape you desired. it's possible that some manufacturer would figure out how to "lego-ize" battery pack assembly for the DIY electric car conversion process and all that would really be required after that was a properly designed protective skid plate or other enclosure to prevent pack damage from road debris.

unless the motor tops 200hp and the pack doesn't end up weighing another 500 lbs though, it wouldn't be a good drop in for a spyder.

There is already a company offering conversion kits for the 2nd gen as well as a bunch of other vehicles.

I think it was still like $8k though.

https://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=40

@wilcomr-s

The only problems with their kit is the transmission is still needed and the motor only produces  71 HP, so its performance will be pretty low.

As a side note, battery technology is changing but when all of the important specifications are reviewed, it is still nowhere where it needs to be when applied to vehicle technology.