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1zz Turbo Build - TopSecret Turbo Kit  

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marsrock7
(@marsrock7)
Reputable Member
dblotii
(@dblotii)
Trusted Member

Water injection actually does 2 things to reduce knock:  The heat of vaporization cools the incoming charge and the net reduction in inducted temp has a direct knock resistance benefit.  The second (separate) benefit is the benefit of humidity on knock resistance.  Regardless of temperature, higher humidity reduces knock tendency (like raising Octane).  The humidity benefit is a function of the how it changes the ratio of specific heats (think of it as a chemical property) of the mixture, and also changes some of the complex chemistry of combustion.  And yes, the ambient humidity does effect knock tendency.  The worst weather for knock is hot and dry.

Methanol mixed with water also has the chemical effect of increasing Octane chemically, since Methanol has a very high Octane number.

For most effective water injection benefit, inject the water as close to the intake valves as possible, so more of the heat of vaporization goes into the cylinder and less into the intake system.  The most effective water injection is directly in the cylinder (like where the GDI fuel injectors are).  You can find several SAE papers published on this.  

Finally, realize that (except for direct water injection) the water displaces some air and so the turbocharger has to work harder to force the same amount of air in the cylinder.  This is why water injection can actually reduce power at low revs when the turbo is already working as hard as it can (wastegate closed).

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Posted : March 21, 2020 9:25 am
marsrock7 and CSPIDY liked
dblotii
(@dblotii)
Trusted Member

Oh and another thing, tap water is not recommended because the minerals deposit on the intake valves and in the cylinders and can cause excessive wear.

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Posted : March 21, 2020 9:31 am
marsrock7 and CSPIDY liked
LordTakuban
(@lordtakuban)
Member Admin
Posted by: @pattielipp

@lordtakuban Any recommendations on a reliable kit without breaking the bank? I'd like to stay under $300, the cheaper the better...

 

Sorry.  I just saw this.  I've been super busy with my day job these past few weeks.  Anyway, I've been really happy with my Snow Performance Stage 2 kit with the low-level indicator add-on.  I don't know how much that kit costs these days, but I thought I got it for $250 way back when.  If you can find one on sale or lightly used, you should grab one.

Get your Short Antennas, Decals, and all sorts of goodies at:
https://takubanmotorsports.com

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Posted : March 22, 2020 12:43 pm
marsrock7
(@marsrock7)
Reputable Member

The stage 2 kits I purchased that were boost reference were about $350 

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Posted : March 22, 2020 5:28 pm
LordTakuban
(@lordtakuban)
Member Admin
Posted by: @marsrock7

The stage 2 kits I purchased that were boost reference were about $350 

Yeah.  It's been a long time (like 2007 or 2008 when I bought mine).  And my memory is only so good on pricing details from back then.  🙂

 It's still a great kit though.  And Snow Performance stands by their products, too.

Get your Short Antennas, Decals, and all sorts of goodies at:
https://takubanmotorsports.com

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Posted : March 22, 2020 7:57 pm
marsrock7
(@marsrock7)
Reputable Member

Snow is owned by Nitrous Express now, so buyers, take that as you will.

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Posted : March 22, 2020 11:18 pm
Patrick Lipp
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin

Great info that I will take into consideration. Progress has been slowed, as expected because of Covid, but there has been progress on the outlined Stage 1 of the build.. Firstly, laying out/putting together the kit off the car, making sure the parts are all there and checking fitment. Once looking at the gaskets, I realized I needed new all around, so they were purchased.

 

IMG 20200216 201328
IMG 20200306 121803

 

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

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Posted : March 24, 2020 9:36 am
Patrick Lipp
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin

Gaskets came in, I had to buy a C-clip and o-ring for the HKS BOV. Also trying to figure out the best piping route... preferably to not cut anything, but it's not looking likely.

IMG 20200223 105307
IMG 20200221 120551 01
IMG 20200216 201537

Any thought on placement of MAF and BOV? my thoughts were to have the MAF as close to the manifold as possible as to record as close to true intake temps and airflow(cfm) going into the engine. any theory on the BOV placement?

 

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

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Posted : March 24, 2020 9:56 am
Patrick Lipp
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin

Got the gauge cluster back in. Man I forgot how much these early versions of the LP gauge pods move around without velcro or some sort of adhesive. a quick drive with it in place and I removed it until it's wired up and some sort of adhesive is installed. I also got some new solid bushings for the front control arms.

IMG 20200216 201817 01
IMG 20200316 161921 02

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

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Posted : March 24, 2020 10:03 am
Patrick Lipp
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin

Last set of the day; After a quick drive to get some new gas, I started pulling things apart. This brings my first issue to light. One of the things DEV has outlined with the CHE muffler to down pipe situation... The donut gasket of the muffler and the Che downpipe don't match.. I am thankful I went with full 2.5" for my exhaust though. I planned it all out years ago. It also saddens me to know I've had this exhaust for so many years. :'( The muffler I got from TwoStep(Gambel) more than 4 years ago off of Spyderchat... The Che midpipe I purchased in 2011 from Che directly... I've also had my rcntype splitter since April 2013 🤔 😮 🙄 and have yet to install it... 

IMG 20200320 225054
IMG 20200320 230839

Diffuser/Splitter hardware.

Hardware order top down:
Bracket > diffuser front panel > Big washer > lock washer > nut

Subframe > Spacer > diffuser middle > Big washer > lock washer > Long bolt

Nut > small washer > bumper > neoprene washer > diffuser rear channel > small washer > short bolt

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

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Posted : March 24, 2020 10:36 am
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marsrock7
(@marsrock7)
Reputable Member

Nice kit! Good to see the divorced wastegate setup. With all that's happening you should now have lots of time to mess with this 🙂

Disclaimer: I have zero firsthand experience with boost, so the below recommendations are just what I have learned through reading and plan to implement in my own build.

Regarding placements along the charge line: You do want the MAF pretty close to the throttle plate, most do recommend at least 6 inches away from it to reduce shock from the throttle plate snapping shut. BOV should be upstream of the MAF, so the MAF doesn't measure air that ends up expelled from the charge pipe. Not sure if there is any difference to pre or post-intercooler, maybe someone else can chime in here. Either way, I would suggest leaving the max allowable space between BOV and MAF in case you do end up adding meth injection. I plan for my meth injection to be post-BOV and pre-MAF, with at least 6" between all elements. You don't want to be blowing methanol out the BOV if you can avoid it, and you do want the meth to have fully vaporized before reaching the MAF so you can get accurate air temps. Many inject post-MAF, but personally I want the ECU to see the temp of the final air charge, in case the meth system malfunctions. 

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Posted : March 25, 2020 3:09 am
dblotii
(@dblotii)
Trusted Member

@marsrock7 I really recommend you reconsider where you inject methanol!  Not only will you avoid compressor damage, but you will get much more benefit by injecting in the intake manifold.  Best arrangement is one water injector aimed between cylinders 1 and 2 and another aimed at between 3 and 4.

 

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Posted : March 26, 2020 11:32 am
Patrick Lipp
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin
Posted by: @dblotii

@marsrock7 I really recommend you reconsider where you inject methanol!  Not only will you avoid compressor damage, but you will get much more benefit by injecting in the intake manifold.  Best arrangement is one water injector aimed between cylinders 1 and 2 and another aimed at between 3 and 4.

 

I wouldn't even think of doing it pre-compressor. My plan is to have it either pre-MAF, or post, which is only a few inch difference since it's just before the throttle body. I like the thought of having it pre MAF so that I can better track intake temps, although it's not a huge issue since I could just put a temp sensor in there.. that's a problem for another day though.

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

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Posted : March 30, 2020 10:16 pm
Patrick Lipp
(@pattielipp)
Guy with car Admin

Had a response typed up, but lost in when editing my previous post. I have done some more work.. errr pulled some more parts off. One thing led to another and I pulled the intake manifold off. Good thing I did too because the gasket was SHOT. It was as flat as can be and would have been boost leak city. New gasket got here a few days ago, so some time this week that'll be going on. I also installed the 630cc injectors, although they'll be coming back off along with the fuel rail when I put the intake manifold back on with the new gaskets. I also ordered a special donut gasket for the exhaust which should fix my issues there, but we'll see.. Once I finally get all of the parts in the next week or two, I should have it back together to drive and get the base tune on with the 2.5" intake and 630cc injectors.

www.patricklipp.com
www.mytechliving.com

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Posted : March 30, 2020 10:22 pm
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