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2ZZ-GE or 2AR-FE  

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DesertWanderer
(@desertwanderer)
Reputable Member

Hello. I have recently (last Friday) acquired a 2004 Spyder with a locked up 1ZZ. I want to go back with either a 2ZZ or a 2AR and a 6 speed. The car will be NA with no chance of boost ever! My goal is more power and as bulletproof an engine as is possible. 

 

I am not a mechanic but I love tinkering with the Spyders and my S2000. I have done an engine R&R in the S2000, two clutches, two superchargers, and a differential in its near 400,000 miles of service. I say this only to show again that I make no claim to be a mechanic but I can do some mechanical stuff and I can learn (eventually).

 

I would like any input that you have on the 2ZZ versus the 2AR. I have never had either but I love the way the 2ZZ sounds and Marc's car with the 2AR sounds really strong.  I think for swap details many have done the 2ZZ and Marc has outlined a clear path with a lot of support. Your thoughts?

This topic was modified 1 month ago by DesertWanderer
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Posted : May 25, 2020 4:54 pm
dev
 dev
(@dev)
Just a member. Moderator

At this point in time If I was in the same situation I would go 2AR because its novel.  It might be very hard to find good examples of 2ZZ engines because they are old now with checkered histories that I would want to inspect the motor before purchasing it. With the 2AR you could find a very good examples.  Also the benefits of the quality of power down low would make it that much better.  

 

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Posted : May 25, 2020 5:19 pm
DesertWanderer
(@desertwanderer)
Reputable Member

Thanks Dev! I had not thought of engine availability. Yep! The power down low looks really good!

This post was modified 1 month ago 2 times by DesertWanderer
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Posted : May 25, 2020 5:29 pm
neomr2
(@neomr2)
Estimable Member

I would go 2AR too, but if you want to get an opinion form someone that owns and drives both, PM phatts.

Mono Craft GT-300 with a few upgrades...

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Posted : May 25, 2020 5:34 pm
DesertWanderer
(@desertwanderer)
Reputable Member

@neomr2 Thanks! Phatts, who seems to own all Spyder things! I will!

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Posted : May 25, 2020 5:49 pm
Mscholten
(@mscholten)
Eminent Member

I am biased, but I drove a 2zz, and it was not that different from the 1zz until 6k RPM. The 2arfe is a rocket at 3.5k. 

And like Dev said, my engine is out of a 2014 Camry with 25k miles...

 

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Posted : May 25, 2020 7:25 pm
marsrock7
(@marsrock7)
Reputable Member

Given the whole reason I want to supercharge my 2ZZ is to get some low end torque.... 2AR is probably a better bet. I don't know what pricing is like for all the bits necessary for a clean 2AR swap, but if it's any less than a Kswap it's probably worthwhile.

If money is no obstacle, and the goal is torque, a K24 swap could also be considered. I know the paths for both the Kswap and 2AR have gotten much clearer over the past couple of years.

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Posted : May 25, 2020 7:36 pm
dev
 dev
(@dev)
Just a member. Moderator
Posted by: @mscholten

I am biased, but I drove a 2zz, and it was not that different from the 1zz until 6k RPM. The 2arfe is a rocket at 3.5k. 

And like Dev said, my engine is out of a 2014 Camry with 25k miles...

 

It depends on the exhaust set up and intake. Once I had those sorted the 2ZZ has it down low more than the 1ZZ and it gets it into lift much quicker so it feels faster in every gear. At one time I wasn’t satisfied because it had a bipolar character but now it feels effortless and quick. 

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Posted : May 25, 2020 8:07 pm
nocoolname
(@nocoolname)
Estimable Member

I've not looked into the 2ar swap much, but have a 2zz swapped spyder and have done a few 2zz swaps and consider myself decently mechanically inclined.  With that said, if I was swapping out a 1zz in a spyder currently and choosing between the 2zz and the 2ar, I would probably lean towards the 2ar. 

 

The 2zz swap does have it's pros such as it's well documented and you have a lot of people to work you through any problems pretty easily.  The swap is pretty straight forward as well.  It can be fairly inexpensive if you don't mind some wiring or keeping the 5 speed trans.  It's also a fun engine in the spyder.  It's comparable to the B18C series of Honda engines more than it is to a K or F series, but that comparison is another thread.  There's also some cons now to the 2zz that are only going to get worse as time goes on though and that is it's a dated engine, the newest used engine is going to be about 13 years old so finding a good one is tougher.  It's a dated engine for another reason and that is it's starting to be old tech.

As I said I haven't looked into the 2ar much but the pros of it would sway me to it over a 2zz, which are Marc has done a lot of work making the swap as easy as can be.  Between what he's done and Phats has documented, I would feel comfortable if I was to do the swap.  The engine is newer tech, there's more out there and they have less miles than a 2zz.  For a daily a 2ar sounds a little more fun with the torque coming in lower.

 

One thing that would sway me the other way though would be where I lived and the laws regarding engine swaps and such there.

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Posted : May 25, 2020 9:45 pm
marsrock7 liked
DesertWanderer
(@desertwanderer)
Reputable Member

@nocoolname Luckily I live "out in the sticks" in Texas and we really do not have any roadblocks regarding engine swaps. I REALLY appreciate your thoughtful response!

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Posted : May 25, 2020 9:55 pm
DesertWanderer
(@desertwanderer)
Reputable Member

@marsrock7 Really appreciate your thoughts! I wish money was no object but with my youngest child 53 years old I have a LOT more leeway on "fun items".

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Posted : May 25, 2020 10:14 pm
marsrock7 liked
nocoolname
(@nocoolname)
Estimable Member

@desertwanderer I live out in the sticks in Kentucky so I know what you mean.

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Posted : May 25, 2020 10:39 pm
DesertWanderer
(@desertwanderer)
Reputable Member

Hey here is another option that the previous owner of my Spyder said that I have. He had the car for two weeks. He bought it, never checked the oil, and it locked up last week. He said that since it ran out of oil, maybe if I filled it full of oil and "rocked" the car the oil would slosh around and perhaps unlock the engine. I thanked him for the thought and left. He was really serious.

This poor little Spyder looks GREAT. It only has about 28,000 miles on it. I will do right by it!

I have to go and slosh the oil around! Wish me luck!

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Posted : May 25, 2020 10:49 pm
marsrock7 and dev liked
dev
 dev
(@dev)
Just a member. Moderator

It would be interesting. I have found some times the owner of an item think its   broken beyond repair and once I get it I often find that it was misdiagnosed and easy to rectify.  That’s how I get the best deals sometimes especially taking a chance on EBay. 

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Posted : May 25, 2020 11:39 pm
marsrock7
(@marsrock7)
Reputable Member
Posted by: @desertwanderer

Hey here is another option that the previous owner of my Spyder said that I have. He had the car for two weeks. He bought it, never checked the oil, and it locked up last week. He said that since it ran out of oil, maybe if I filled it full of oil and "rocked" the car the oil would slosh around and perhaps unlock the engine. I thanked him for the thought and left. He was really serious.

This poor little Spyder looks GREAT. It only has about 28,000 miles on it. I will do right by it!

I have to go and slosh the oil around! Wish me luck!

LMAO! 😆😆😆

Good thing this car is light and easy to rock around....

 

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Posted : May 26, 2020 2:13 am
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