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dev
 dev
(@dev)
Just a member. Moderator
Posted by: CSPIDY

Make the journey to the dragon, there are so many tight bends, you get a lot of practice. Each year I go I gain more confidence. I am by no way a race car driver. But, This little car is amazing how well it will simply steer through bends. And my car is Box stock engine and suspension wise.

That is probably one of the only times I actually used my brakes to their full potential classing down the car in front of me who was a local that likes to embarrass visitors with a sleeper Saturn turbo ION with full suspension.   

Otherwise there is this once hair pin that I will accelerate towards well into lift and then slam on the brakes while downshifting to 2nd and then powering out of it to spin the wheels to shake the back end. Still there is no need to heel toe but I will blip the throttle because it sounds cool.  Otherwise Im so fast everywhere else that its going to get me into trouble.  

Becarful  what you wish for in grip because there is a downside. 

 

 

 

 

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Posted : June 29, 2019 1:19 pm
NottaMiata
(@nottamiata)
Honorable Member

..

🐸, 2003, Electric Green Mica, (still !) not enough mods...

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Topic starter Posted : June 30, 2019 10:24 am
SW-Indy
(@sw-indy)
Active Member

On the Dragon ( spring of 2018), I experienced a couple of times (being sloppy, while going fast) that if you don’t raise the RPMs during a downshift, the back end will jump sideways.  Think of it like you just pulled the parking brake handle up, while turning into a corner.  It’s a reliable way to “swap ends” and that doesn’t often turn out pretty!

So while it doesn’t always have to be a perfect heel and toe technique, when these midship engine cars are driven aggressively try to match the RPMs (somehow) and avoid just dumping the clutch during a 3-2 downshift.  Practice, practice,practice!👍😎

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Posted : June 30, 2019 4:57 pm
CSPIDY
(@cspidy)
Estimable Member
Posted by: Dev
Posted by: CSPIDY

Make the journey to the dragon, there are so many tight bends, you get a lot of practice. Each year I go I gain more confidence. I am by no way a race car driver. But, This little car is amazing how well it will simply steer through bends. And my car is Box stock engine and suspension wise.

Becarful  what you wish for in grip because there is a downside. 

 

Two years ago my youngest son was driving the dragon, down shifted into 2nd then powered to early in the bend, the car torqued, lifted the inboard rear tire off the ground and scared the ba Jesus out of him. He still feels bad about it but I think he learned a lesson that day. Bracing may have prevented that.

 

 

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Posted : June 30, 2019 8:05 pm
dev
 dev
(@dev)
Just a member. Moderator
Posted by: CSPIDY
Posted by: Dev
Posted by: CSPIDY

Make the journey to the dragon, there are so many tight bends, you get a lot of practice. Each year I go I gain more confidence. I am by no way a race car driver. But, This little car is amazing how well it will simply steer through bends. And my car is Box stock engine and suspension wise.

Becarful  what you wish for in grip because there is a downside. 

 

Two years ago my youngest son was driving the dragon, down shifted into 2nd then powered to early in the bend, the car torqued, lifted the inboard rear tire off the ground and scared the ba Jesus out of him. He still feels bad about it but I think he learned a lesson that day. Bracing may have prevented that.

 

 

If I’m not mistaken Dons girlfriend totaled his Spyder at the dragon by  slamming it against the mountain. 

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Posted : June 30, 2019 8:39 pm
SLBit
(@slbit)
Active Member

I had difficulty blipping the throttle during downshift on the Spyder too. The throttle pedal sits too low and is too far away from the brake pedal for me to do it comfortably and smoothly. I purchased a set of aftermarket pedals from Twos-R-US and only used the gas pedal. I mounted it over the stock pedal and about 1/2 to 3/4 inches to the left. That raises the contact surface slightly and puts it closer to the brake so I can roll my foot on the brake pedal and blip the throttle with the side of my foot. It works well but I do not practice it enough on the street to get really proficient at it.

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Posted : July 1, 2019 1:11 pm
dev
 dev
(@dev)
Just a member. Moderator

There is a lot more to driving but somehow the romance of heal-toe seems cloud the issue of driving effectively for fun on the street where its pretty much useless in most situations and ends up being a thing  to do.  

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted : July 1, 2019 2:49 pm
CSPIDY
(@cspidy)
Estimable Member
Posted by: Dev
Posted by: CSPIDY
Posted by: Dev
Posted by: CSPIDY

Make the journey to the dragon, there are so many tight bends, you get a lot of practice. Each year I go I gain more confidence. I am by no way a race car driver. But, This little car is amazing how well it will simply steer through bends. And my car is Box stock engine and suspension wise.

Becarful  what you wish for in grip because there is a downside. 

 

Two years ago my youngest son was driving the dragon, down shifted into 2nd then powered to early in the bend, the car torqued, lifted the inboard rear tire off the ground and scared the ba Jesus out of him. He still feels bad about it but I think he learned a lesson that day. Bracing may have prevented that.

 

 

If I’m not mistaken Dons girlfriend totaled his Spyder at the dragon by  slamming it against the mountain. 

Are speaking of the rat fink Don? If so maybe some parts of his car are on the tree of shame

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Posted : July 1, 2019 5:14 pm
dev
 dev
(@dev)
Just a member. Moderator
Posted by: CSPIDY
Posted by: Dev
Posted by: CSPIDY
Posted by: Dev
Posted by: CSPIDY

Make the journey to the dragon, there are so many tight bends, you get a lot of practice. Each year I go I gain more confidence. I am by no way a race car driver. But, This little car is amazing how well it will simply steer through bends. And my car is Box stock engine and suspension wise.

Becarful  what you wish for in grip because there is a downside. 

 

Two years ago my youngest son was driving the dragon, down shifted into 2nd then powered to early in the bend, the car torqued, lifted the inboard rear tire off the ground and scared the ba Jesus out of him. He still feels bad about it but I think he learned a lesson that day. Bracing may have prevented that.

 

 

If I’m not mistaken Dons girlfriend totaled his Spyder at the dragon by  slamming it against the mountain. 

Are speaking of the rat fink Don? If so maybe some parts of his car are on the tree of shame

Just wait for part 3 of the history of Spyderchat.  That car crash was the impetuous of Spyderweb.   

 

 

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Posted : July 1, 2019 5:29 pm
haloruler64
(@haloruler64)
Prominent Member

I can't heel toe to save my life. And it doesn't matter on the street. I'm happy rev match downshifting and making fun noises. Even at autox I don't feel it greatly affects my time.

But when it comes to track, I feel like it holds me back. Braking hard and late into a corner, then needing to rev and shift into the appropriate gear before powering through the corner is annoying and a little scary when you let off the brakes but haven't gassed yet. Not that it would ever cause trouble, if you're not turning pre-shift you're fine, but it is not fun.

2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder, 2020 Mazda 3 Hatchback 6MT

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Posted : July 2, 2019 6:52 pm
NottaMiata
(@nottamiata)
Honorable Member

..

🐸, 2003, Electric Green Mica, (still !) not enough mods...

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Topic starter Posted : July 3, 2019 7:02 am
dev
 dev
(@dev)
Just a member. Moderator
Posted by: NottaMiata
Posted by: Dev

There is a lot more to driving but somehow the romance of heal-toe seems cloud the issue of driving effectively for fun on the street where its pretty much useless in most situations and ends up being a thing  to do.  

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't exactly state the issue correctly. I want to be able to comfortably downshift to engine brake, somewhat.  I feel like I am burning up my brake pads just braking in neutral, and it's actually illegal to do so (right... whatever, guys). I just assumed that the only way to do it without braking too early was heel-toe.  But I do understand it is not necessary.  It is, however, a skill, and I am slowly, inexorably being drawn to autocross, so what better place to practice than on exit ramps?

Everyones roads are different.  I can tell you that what I do is just down shift well before the turn and in most cases I will downshift and accelerate towards the turn and then brake letting the gear im in also help with engine braking and then just accelerate through the turn giving it light pedal and then a heavy pedal transferring the weight of the car incrementally.  Heel toe wouldn't help me 99% of my driving simply because Im not trying to be the fastest in the straights to have to make up any time to scrub off that much speed.   When driving on the street the straights are just a means to get to the corner and a lot of times I slow down and then pick up the speed I need before the corner to enjoy the G forces.  

I would literally have to be close to triple digit speeds for heel toe to help in some way  which is pretty much reckless driving on the country roads that Im driving on .  

 Heel toe has its place but it is a pro technique that is done much after everything else has been mastered and you are trying to win a trophy.  There are many other less interesting techniques of driving that needs to be learned first and the safest place for that kind of driving is on a track.  

 It doesn't  mean you can't enjoy the car for the street and take corners effectively without having to blip the throttle. All you need to do is shift smoothly selecting the right gear and take the turn. How you negotiate the turn is where you hone in on your skills and where you get the personal reward of feeling where the limits are but not coming anywhere close to exceeding them. 

 

 

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Posted : July 3, 2019 9:31 am
chrioboy2
(@chrioboy2)
Trusted Member

I try not to brake hard at all. Rather I approach the "turn in" with downshifted engine braking near the power band. This gives me time to late brake if I puss out while being able to throttle through the curve and exit near an up shift Driving this aggressively will kill your mpg and probably your engine but I'm in it for fun and random backfires. Heel toe downshifts help me correct losing the power band due to driving too slow or making a mistake from the previous turn. I learned this from a very aggressive ae86 collector "4age" while working in the same toyota service center who had a few competent fun seekers.

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Posted : July 5, 2019 9:37 am
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